You hear Witnesses claim God's original purpose was for man to live forever on earth - there is no direct statement proving this the case. Interestingly note that Adam was denied to take of the fruit from the tree of life, in case he ate and lives forever. This same tree of life is mentioned in Rev 2 as has been quoted already showing it in heaven. So is it right to say if Adam had not sinned he would have lived forever, or is it that at that time he was just like the other living creature's around him and unless he was given life by means of this tree he would die? Did God therefore just prevent him from partaking thereby allowing him to die? I read a verse last night which said something along the lines of 'which was prepared for you from the begining' I cant recall where now though, sorry...anybody? It is is to 'add' assumptions without clear statements from the Bible to deny such thoughts.
cyberdyne systems 101
JoinedPosts by cyberdyne systems 101
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The New System
by sandy inis there enough scriptural support for the beleif in a paradise here on earth?
i heard somebody say that there isn't.
i curious to here any other thoughts on this.
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Library containing early Watchtower mags & books
by cyberdyne systems 101 ini would be interested to be able to look up references made from now unavailable literature, does anyone know of a library that contains them?
by the way i am in england.
its not that i doubt the many quotaions i have seen, but its frustrating to not see them in the flesh.
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cyberdyne systems 101
Thanks for some idea's
Arnie
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Library containing early Watchtower mags & books
by cyberdyne systems 101 ini would be interested to be able to look up references made from now unavailable literature, does anyone know of a library that contains them?
by the way i am in england.
its not that i doubt the many quotaions i have seen, but its frustrating to not see them in the flesh.
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cyberdyne systems 101
I would be interested to be able to look up references made from now unavailable literature, does anyone know of a library that contains them? By the way I am in England. Its not that I doubt the many quotaions I have seen, but its frustrating to not see them in the flesh.
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Bethel "Vow of Poverty" documents scanned.
by What-A-Coincidence invow of poverty scanned from 2002 documents.
i believe these are the latest ones unless someone has a newer one.
i posted these in another thread but i thought it deserved its own.. ocrd with 98% accuracy.... initial cover page 1 of 4. vow of obedience and povertyto the.
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cyberdyne systems 101
Why is it that the Apostle Paul worked so as to provide for himself, and yet the society doesn't follow his biblical example? Can anyone site scritural support to my statement? I will try and look it up later too, thanks
Arnie
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Raymond Franz
by KW13 inraymond franz was a member of the governing body and was a jw for many years till he left.. he wrote a book which provides a great insight into jw's but what is really good about it is he isn't bitter when he comes across and so far i am really enjoying the read.. also in there are copies of letters sent from him to the society or the other way around and i recommend anyone who can find it should read it!.
http://www.watchtowerinformationservice.org/cocbr.htm.
i am only just into it and i am hooked.
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cyberdyne systems 101
I myself was reading the penultimate chapter last night (of my first read through of the book). It is a most interesting read and there are many that I'd love to show and get to read it also - respect for the way it is written. Ultimately when we are judged by Christ (if indeed we are) we wont be able to have the society next to us and say I did it cause they told me so, it will be our own actions that will be judged. Just like it wasnt an excuse in the Nazi war criminal trials to say they were ordered to do so - we each stand for ourselves, so the way control is laid out by that organisation as being 'our' christian conscience, is completely out of harmany with God's word.
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Is this Bible warning a valid one?
by scout575 inat hebrews 10: 26,27 the bible warns those who would consider leaving christianity: "for if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgement and a fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
" is the bible trustworthy in saying that those who leave christianity are certain to experience a dread of judgement by god?
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cyberdyne systems 101
The verses in Hebrews refer to those annointed ones, who received holy sprit. Just read on a few verses to see this. I have never been one of these as the majority of Witnesses have not been according to their own belief structure, and yet any and all verses are applied equally to all Witnesses. Imagine if one was really annointed and recieved the spirit, the bible would take on new meaning, living a spiritual life instead of the fleshly one, and thats where the idea of making fleshly people follow laws to spirit annointed people fall down, the Law proved we could not keep it. To be a True Christian one would have to receive the holy spirit and your life is no longer for the flesh but to your spiritual body without the 'needs and desire's' of a fleshly body.
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Jehovah's Witnesses claim that God must always be referred to as Jehovah
by Rook infirst, the word jehovah came about because the ancient jews had a superstitious dread of pronouncing the name yhwh for fear they would violate the commandment not to take god's name in vain.
to avoid the possibility of breaking this commandment, the jews substituted the name "adonai" (lord) or some other name in its place when ever they read it in scripture.
eventually the scribes inserted the vowels from adonai within the consonants yhwh and the result was yahowah, or jehovah.
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cyberdyne systems 101
Just a small point, some OT verses are quoted in the NT which would have had God's name in them, so although you are right that the name doesn't appear in the Greek text, its certainly not inppropriate to include YHWH in the OT quotes. The trouble is once WTS took this name on they can hardly take it back can they.
Also I had never considered the fact that Jesus was never recorded as saying God's name, although he does state something like 'I made your (His Father's) name known to them'.
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Hello Everyone, My First Time
by butterfliorchids inhi, i just got registered and am looking forward to getting to know others who have escaped from the controlled environment that i was so faithful to for so long.
i hope to meet others with similar backgrounds.
i've been out about 4yrs and love the feel of it, but to be honest, as much as a definiate decision it was on my part, there was still a long time of adjustment.
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cyberdyne systems 101
Welcome from another newish member. You comment on the time it takes to adjust to life beyond the WTS is so often the case, i'm just the same.
Arnie
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The end is not close..................so prove it !
by vitty inim fading, and some of my family now realize we arent going to meetings.
everytime they phone or speak to me me, they keep reminding ( threatning) that the end is so close, dont give up now.. i just dont know how to respond, i know so much, but dont want to go into the un stuff yet ( dont want to sound apostate just yet) how can i say i dont believe the end is close !
that armageddon isnt iminent, what scripture can i use to back it up.
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cyberdyne systems 101
Then end is close for them because they are told it is. If you read Mathew 24 with out any bias, you can see Jesus was talking to the disciples about the time coming soon - the destruction of Jerusalem. There is no reason to read into it a broader meaning that just happens to coincide with 'today'. Why did the apostle Paul say to those he wrote to that there would be some of us changed in a twinkling of an eye to be in heaven? Yet the Witnesses claim this wont happen until Armagedon!? Unfortunately there is no way to refute their arguments without sounding apostate to their doctrines. Just be sure to your own understanding and convictions, and I dont know about you but I hated doing research when I was in, but now I love doing it. To actually be looking into the bible to discern its true meaning instead of listening to the constant propaganda dredged up year after year is actually exciting.
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Does God make Mistakes or Bad Decisions?
by gumby ingenesis 6:5-7, 8:21. god decides to send a great flood to kill all humans, save noah and his family, because man's heart is evil.
"and god saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.... and the lord said, i will destroy man whom i have created from the face of the earth.".
later, after the flood waters recede, god promises never to do it again because man's heart is evil.
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cyberdyne systems 101
Does not this account prove that the Witless idea of the paradise on earth, after all wicked mankind is destroyed to be false. After all if God says he wont do destruction of this scale again, that kinda flies in the face of the way the WTS presents their unique interpretation doesn't it?